RD Tax Credit – Interview with Justin Maxwell | 424

Research and development tax credits are a great way to offset expenses and add cashflow to businesses. But many business owners don’t even know they qualify for these credits.

In this episode, Chris Miles and Justin Maxwell, Tax and Wealth Strategist at Big Life Financial, explore research and development tax credits and what business owners need to know.

Justin works with small to medium-sized business owners, dentists, chiropractors, real estate investors, automotive industry, construction companies, software companies, manufacturing firms, franchise owners, real estate brokerage owners and more.

R&D Tax Incentive specialist, 95% of business owners are not using this incentive. Justin helps you get back on average between 10K-50K in taxes.

Chris Miles (00:07):
Hello, my fellow Ripplers! This is Chris Miles. Your Cash Flow Expert and Anti-Financial Advisor. Welcome you out for a wonderful show. Show that’s for you and about you. Those of you that work so hard for your money and you’re ready for your money to start working harder for you. Now! You want to work because you want to, not because you have to. You want that freedom. That cashflow. That prosperity. Today! Not 30 or 40 bazillion years from now, but right now. So you have that life that you love doing what you love with those that you love. But guys, it’s so much more than just having a lot of money, right? It’s so much more than just being rich. It’s about living a rich life. It’s about creating a ripple effect in the lives of others. As a Rippler, you are here to bless more lives with the gifts and the resources and everything you’ve been given to help more people.

Chris Miles (00:51):
And so guys, I’m excited to be a Rippler with you. Thank you for letting my ripple effect extends through you guys. As you’ve been bingeing and sharing this with other people. I, again, I love that the show it keeps growing and growing all because of you. And it’s not just about growing, but it’s more importantly about you guys taking action and getting real results.

Chris Miles (01:09):
Here’s a quick reminder, check out our website www.MoneyRipples.com There’s great blogs on there. If you want to see other videos of what we’re doing here with these same episodes. You can also go to our YouTube page. And of course, we got our free e-book Beyond Rice and Beans that you could download for free today. So check it out.

Chris Miles (01:25):
Alright! So today I’ve got a special guest here. You know what? I get different things pitched to me here and there, right? And you guys know this, like if I bring somebody on, I don’t bring people that are posers, right? I bring on people that I feel are going to be really valuable for you and actually give you real value. And you know what? This is no exception. I think you guys are going to get, especially if you’re a, if you have a business, you’re going to get tickled by this completely. So, tickle, no I’m just kidding. So, all right. So anyways, without further ado, I want to introduce you to Justin Maxwell. Now, Justin Maxwell is one of the founders of Big Life Financial. He’s a research and development tax specialist. He’s only been an entrepreneur since 2016, because prior to that, he was a PE teacher, right? And now he has master’s degree and he’s very passionate about helping business owners save as much as legally possible on taxes.

Chris Miles (02:11):
Now, what he really does help business understand and implement the R and D or the Research and Development Tax Incentive into their business, which most of us, including myself, I even had my own stuff, looked at with them as well, trying to find extra taxes that maybe you can even get back in your pocket today. Some of these people have saved anywhere from 10 to 30,000 years. Sometimes it’s been into the hundreds of thousands of years. So all just from this little cool tax credit that most accountants don’t even tell you about. So, Justin, welcome to our show!

Justin Maxwell (02:40):
Yeah. Thank you for having me, Chris. I’m really excited to be here. I appreciate you letting me come on.

Chris Miles (02:45):
So tell me, like, how did you go from going from something as exciting as a PE teacher to something as boring as taxes? Like how did that happen?

Justin Maxwell (02:53):
Yeah. I love health. I love movements. I really am passionate about it, but I came to a point in my PE teaching career where I was just like, I hit a wall of like, I felt like I progressed to a point where I couldn’t progress anymore. Like I could still improve, but I didn’t think I could bring more, any more value or help improve my own self. I wanted to look for more. I started searching more. I took classes on like real estate investing and taxes or retirement accounts. And that eventually ended up me here. So it’s kind of a different path, but yeah, I wanted to reach more people. I wanted to do more. I just thought I had a wall teaching that I couldn’t surmount by staying there.

Chris Miles (03:30):
Yeah. And what is it that you do exactly. Because you’re not actually an accountant, but you are referring to accounting firms, correct?

Justin Maxwell (03:36):
Right, correct. So we aren’t, I’m not an accountant, I’m just a strategist or specialist that understands the research and development tax incentive at a pretty high level, more so than most would work with a team of accountants that this is all they do. They only do research on tax incentives. They’re not filing your taxes. They’re not helping you get deductions. They’re only doing incentives and credits.

Chris Miles (03:57):
Right. And so tell us, what is this tax credit? Exactly. I know there’s a been, very rare CPA’s that even bring this up. Right? Very rarely we hear about this. Tell us like, how did this come to be and why does it exist in the first place?

Justin Maxwell (04:11):
Yeah. So back in 1980, the United States had lost its stronghold on the auto industry. Japan had become a world leader in that economy

Chris Miles (04:18):
Just like Gung-Ho the movie. Right?

Justin Maxwell (04:21):
Yeah. Exactly. And the government was trying to think of different ways to keep U.S. minds on U.S. soil to make U.S. businesses more successful. So not losing their foothold, not only the auto industry, but as a whole in all of business. And so they created the tax incentive, the research on tax incentive. It wasn’t called that then, but that’s what it was. And they made it so that it would incentivize businesses to invent, to hire new people, to keep people on board, to promote entrepreneurship. And just to help businesses wants to invent, like have the desire to even if they were failing in that endeavor. At least they were giving, having the financial backing from the government that would say, we’re going to you to percentage of stuff for your efforts because they know that the people are trying, they’re going to figure out new ways to do stuff. Whether it’s a new product or a new system, just a better way. That’s going to keep the United States globally on the scale of being in charge of the economy,

Chris Miles (05:16):
Right! Create big incentive to, well, really, to innovate. Right? To innovate and create and be the leaders in that way. Right?

Justin Maxwell (05:23):
Yeah.

Chris Miles (05:24):
Yeah.

Justin Maxwell (05:24):
Correct.

Chris Miles (05:25):
That’s cool! And that’s the one thing I love about capitalism anyways. I mean, obviously capitalism should already give you self interest enough to say, Hey, if we’re the best we can make more. But the government said, Hey, let’s incentivize even further. Let’s make sure that they’re not just surviving, but we can actually thrive and let’s give them some tax breaks to get them to be the best. Right?

Justin Maxwell (05:43):
Right. Correct. And it’s that period when it was created 1981, it wasn’t like permanently on the tax code. It was more like a test. Like, let’s see if this works, we’ll see if it helps our businesses. Let’s see if people take advantage of this. And so from 1981 to 2015, that’s what it was like, it was expiring, it was being tweaked. It was being changed. And it was only being used by big business. Like no small businesses could keep up with it. It would have cost a ton of money for CPA’s to ever do that. And so that’s what happens.

Chris Miles (06:10):
Cool! So tell us, like, who does this actually apply to? Like what kind of business owners would get the best benefit from this tax credit?

Justin Maxwell (06:17):
Yeah. So it doesn’t apply to everyone. That’s really important thing to realize, like it can apply to everyone. It’s like business is going really above and beyond and like trying to exempt or create a new process or system. They just have to make sure they’re documented with data and stats and making sure it’s a hard science, but the business is that it’s always going to like probably you’re almost always going to qualify unless there’s like extenuating circumstances are people that are in like manufacturing or engineering or dentistry or medicine or agriculture where it’s hard science stuff already. And so the stuff they’re doing, the government doesn’t really have to investigate right away. Cause they already know what a dentist does. Like they know that as hard science, they know they’re providing custom solutions. There’s not really much investigation on their part. If you don’t fall in one of those categories, then you’re going to have to provide a little bit more data and structure and like go to your testing stuff. It can’t just be like a survey or what do you think about how we’re doing this? Or just randomly throw it out there. They want you to be actually testing stuff with data and that could be a product. It could be a process or it could be a system

Chris Miles (07:21):
Yeah. Let’s go into that a little bit. Like what are those products or those systems? Like what kind of things would that look like for different businesses?

Justin Maxwell (07:28):
Just an example’s sake. Like we have a lot of success with dentists. So when they are doing custom stuff on their clients, they’re, each time they’re looking for different ways to like solve a problem, whether it’s a cavity or they’re looking for different ways to do it, or they’re purchasing like 3d equipment, that’s going to help innovate their systems to make it. So they’re not having to outsource it. So it makes the processes become more quicker within the office.

Chris Miles (07:56):
So anything that improves the system, like actually speeds up the process and that kind of thing. And….

Justin Maxwell (08:01):
So improving, inventing a new system or just like trying to enhance or create something that’s going to make it better.

Chris Miles (08:08):
Right. Even if it’s your own product or your own machinery or

Justin Maxwell (08:11):
Right.

Chris Miles (08:12):
Could be, right?

Justin Maxwell (08:13):
It could even just be like, cause we’ve had some success with like consultants and speakers. It could be like you improving the way you are developing yourself too, because you are the products and you are the way you are speaking and it’s like taking classes on yourself for innovation.

Chris Miles (08:27):
Personal development

Justin Maxwell (08:28):
Right? Correct

Chris Miles (08:30):
Training. Yeah. I was gonna say training or like learning ways or even just going through the process of trying to, you know, if they’re a speaker, right? Like you went through the process of trying to refine the speech, make it better, almost like a comedian does. Right. Like when they try to refine their punchlines and how they deliver a joke and that sort of thing that takes hours of practice and so forth.

Justin Maxwell (08:48):
Correct! Yes. So it doesn’t, don’t get caught up and it has to be like a product that you’re producing or like what we talked about the auto industry earlier, it doesn’t to be a car that you’re trying to enhance to make better. It can be a system or a process within your business. I think people get confused about that. I think that’s why the reason CPA’s don’t necessarily know much about it.

Chris Miles (09:04):
Yeah

Justin Maxwell (09:05):
Or recommend it.

Chris Miles (09:07):
Right! Well, yeah, obviously, and you can get pretty creative with it. I know we did a little process together as well asking questions and thought, Oh, I didn’t realize that could be counted. And especially if you’re a consultant, like we said before off the air, you’ve got employees that are doing some of this work for you. Not you personally, but you’re paying somebody to this kind of work. You also get to write that off as well.

Justin Maxwell (09:24):
Right! Yep. Correct. It’s really important. Like if you have a good chunk of employees, there’s even a higher chance of you’re going to qualify for more money because that if you’re a one-man show, you have to do a lot of volume to do it a lot of research development volume,

Chris Miles (09:37):
Yeah.

Justin Maxwell (09:38):
Which makes it harder for you. Cause that you don’t only make it so much. But if you have employees, the money you’re paying them goes towards the credit as well. So that’s a big help if you have employees in your business.

Chris Miles (09:47):
Yeah. At what point, like, you know, tax bill wise or you know, that people end up owing or paying each year, like at what point does it make sense? Because if they’re not making a whole lot of money, this probably doesn’t make as much sense. Correct?

Justin Maxwell (09:58):
Right! Yes. You have to be profitable and you have to be paying about $10,000 a year at a minimum in taxes. It’s kind of a pay to play type of a system with the government in this one,

Chris Miles (10:11):
Six or seven figures in your business. For sure.

Justin Maxwell (10:13):
Right. Yeah. The more you’re paying taxes, the more you’re making, probably the more you’re going to qualify for.

Chris Miles (10:18):
It makes sense. Right. And who would it not be for? Like what kind of industries say, no, I already know. You probably not going to find anything. Like who would that be?

Justin Maxwell (10:26):
So if you’re like the middleman on it, like you’re taking a products and then you just sell the product again, that’s going to be very difficult for you. So if you’re just taking off the shelf stuff and off the shelf again, just like the middle person on that part, you’re going to have a hard time.

Chris Miles (10:38):
Like in sales or network marketing, those kind of things?

Justin Maxwell (10:41):
Right. Network marketing was difficult to be difficult or like just the example, not talking negatively about like how to look type people like that type of product would have taken products and just reselling it. That type of doesn’t work.

Chris Miles (10:52):
Yeah. I would imagine for them, like the only thing they could possibly do is if they’re like doing like a lot of training of their teams. Like that, systems more.

Justin Maxwell (11:01):
Right. The system would be, and they’d have to have a pretty big team.

Chris Miles (11:04):
Yeah. Oh absolutely! They’ll have a lot of volume to make that worthwhile.

Justin Maxwell (11:08):
Right.

Chris Miles (11:09):
Gotcha! Cool!

Chris Miles (11:11):
What’s the process they go through. If they want to like go and talk to you about that and say, Hey, I want to know if this actually works for me because well, because I mean, yeah. What does that look like?

Justin Maxwell (11:20):
Yeah. So we like to do like a conversation over the phone that just says like preliminary like questions. We’ll just make sure if you’re like, if you’re paying that $10,000 in taxes was asking a few things and if you are, if we feel like you’re on, if you have the potential qualify, we’ll have you fill out a qualification application type thing. And this whole process I’m about describing is completely free because it won’t cost you anything out of your pocket except your time. And we understand your time is valuable. So we’d like to keep it as short as possible, but it’s just, we fill out an application, the questions are gonna draw out like different activities that you’re doing in your business that would qualify for incentives, credits and research development. And then we are going to take that. We give it to our CPAs. They’ll analyze it in about a week or two. You’ll have a number if you qualify and for how much. And then at that point, if you want us to move forward with amending the taxes and getting that money back, then we’ll have to discuss how the fee structure works. And that process.

Chris Miles (12:12):
Like that’s kind of cool. So if you don’t save money, it doesn’t cost anybody out of pocket anything.

Justin Maxwell (12:18):
Right! Correct. So if there’s no money down, no out of pocket. If we do find something and he wants to get it, we take a percentage of that. So it’s not even, you don’t have to pay essentially. You’re just paying out of what we find you. So it’s just money found and you’re getting you pay us out of that money it will be fine.

Chris Miles (12:32):
That’s awesome deal! That’s great. There’s no risk when you do it that way. I love it. So give us an example of somebody like maybe like a dentist or somebody who has used this strategy before. Like what did it do for them?

Justin Maxwell (12:43):
Dentists. We’ve had a ton of success with them. Just like two weeks ago, we got a partnership, $74,000 back into the business. I mean $74,000 that was not going to be coming back. So that’s a lot of money. Like they can go on vacation, they can hire someone else. They can buy a piece of equipment. Like that’s a good, solid amount of money that can benefit them. Either peace of mind wise or business wise, we’ve had success with like, this is a little bit extreme example, but we had a real estate brokerage in Minnesota that got back $800,000. We’ve had auto shops, $25,000. Like it kind of varies depending on the type of brokerage or the type of business you have. But I get very so wildly, but I would just really encourage people. Like if you think that this is applying to you like just investigate it, cause it doesn’t cost you anything and your CPA, there’s like a 5% chance based on the stats and the data provided by the IRS that your CPA is even advising you to use this. So there’s a really low chance of using it.

Chris Miles (13:39):
Right! That’s awesome! I was actually gonna ask about real estate people like whether it’s investors or professional, it sounds like there’s even benefit there too.

Justin Maxwell (13:47):
Yeah. So it has to come from the broker because all the volume of people that have all other agents they have below them, if you’re an agent, it’s going to be more difficult because you don’t have enough people below you providing you money to be paid out. But if you’re like a flipper or like a house flipper, you’d have to do a lot of engineered plans and you’d have to be pretty productive in your business. Because that engineering is research and development. Because everything is that. So if you’re a flipper and you do lots of volume and you engineer a lot of your houses, it’s not just like flip stick on a pig type stuff, then you’re going to have more success in finding this credit work for you.

Chris Miles (14:20):
Fascinating! And I want to make a distinction here too. We’re not writing things off. Like even with these dentists that got back 74,000 If they were already writing off the salaries. And all the things that we’re doing. This is an actual tax credit. This is in addition to everything you already written off.

Justin Maxwell (14:34):
Right! Correct. That’s a very important point. So deductions are lowering your tax liability credits as them paying you money for doing specific activities with your business. A lot of people like know, the kid credit for having kids. The government gives you money for having kids. Like it’s very similar to that. You just have to meet the criteria for them to give you the money.

Chris Miles (14:52):
Oh, I love it! Awesome! Well, if they want to go ahead and fill out that questionnaire and just kind of that no risk assessment with you guys, how would they go about doing that?

Justin Maxwell (15:02):
They go to www.Tax.BigLifeFinancial.com and they can set up a free consultation there and they’ll get a free e-book that will explain the process even further if they want more information.

Chris Miles (15:13):
Awesome! Great! Yeah, guys, we’ll put that in the show notes. So they have the link there. They can go click on. But yeah, I think that’s huge. I was curious about it too. I’ve got an amazing CPA, but, and he even mentioned in this tax credit by, said, Hey, let’s get some other sets of eyes looking at this and see what it really looks like. And it’s a fascinating process.It really is.

Justin Maxwell (15:30):
It’s really cool. I hope anyone that’s listening to business owner at least checks it out because it could be like that dentistry, that those two dentists had no idea existed. And now they have $74,000 coming to them like that wasn’t going to be coming them before. It’s a huge relief to them. Especially dentistry, they got hit. They got shut down by the COVID, so like, if you are in that boat where you got shut down and you want more cash and this is a possibility then let’s definitely set something up.

Chris Miles (15:57):
Yeah. I agree. Like that’s the biggest thing that when we talk about, you know, trying to get money accelerating, right? The best thing is if you don’t lose it in the first place, it’s awesome. You know, or you can get a back. Justin, I really appreciate your time today.

Chris Miles (16:09):
This was great information. Everybody, again, reach out to Justin. We’ll put the link in the show notes for you guys and do that assessment. But if you feel this is something that could really benefit you guys, do it guys. Cause it’s one thing to listen to this show. It’s nothing to take action. And especially when it leads to real dollars in your pocket today. So Justin, thank you so much today.

Justin Maxwell (16:29):
Yeah, no problem. I really appreciate you letting me on and I wish you guys the best. All your listeners in here as well.

Chris Miles (16:34):
Absolutely! Everybody else, I hope you make it a wonderful and prosperous week and we’ll see you later.